Chief Orji Uzor Kalu
Former Abia State Governor, Chief Orji Uzor Kalu does not appear ruffled despite the attacks he gets daily, especially from his home state of Abia. As an indication of having transcended petty politics, he declines questions on the state but instead, says he leaves the Governor, Chief Theodore Orji, to God and his conscience. Sporting a simple cream polo on top of a pair of black jeans on black loafers, Kalu fields questions from journalists only on national issues. Olawale Olaleye was there. Excerpts:
Former Abia State Governor, Chief Orji Uzor Kalu does not appear ruffled despite the attacks he gets daily, especially from his home state of Abia. As an indication of having transcended petty politics, he declines questions on the state but instead, says he leaves the Governor, Chief Theodore Orji, to God and his conscience. Sporting a simple cream polo on top of a pair of black jeans on black loafers, Kalu fields questions from journalists only on national issues. Olawale Olaleye was there. Excerpts:
There have been predictions about a possible break-up of Nigeria by 2015, does it worry you?
No, no, no, Nigeria is in trouble really. Yes, we have a lot of problems but I have always said that if we are all part of the problem, we should all be part of the solution. We should not allow a country like Nigeria to break up. We cannot allow that because it is not the right thing to do.
We must understand that this country is our country and we must try and keep it together, no matter the price, we have to pay. We have fought a civil war and no country that is intelligent enough wants to fight a second civil war. We should stop all these rubbish we are doing and talk about how to stabilise our economy. If we see our economy stabilise, we can then talk of stabilising the polity. Why we are going forth and backward is because we have no strong economy.
Aside insecurity, what other thing do you consider a problem in Nigeria?
Well, the major thing is the massive corruption in the system; it is massive. People are not looking at anybody at all levels of government from the local government level to the federal level; no one is talking about budgets again. Nobody regulates budget. Commissioners don’t even do their jobs now. If you see Commissioners, permanent secretaries, they have no jobs to do any longer.
Aside insecurity, what other thing do you consider a problem in Nigeria?
Well, the major thing is the massive corruption in the system; it is massive. People are not looking at anybody at all levels of government from the local government level to the federal level; no one is talking about budgets again. Nobody regulates budget. Commissioners don’t even do their jobs now. If you see Commissioners, permanent secretaries, they have no jobs to do any longer.
All contracts are awarded on the same table and people deceive themselves and say there is this or that. Hunger is a major problem here. I am only telling those who claim to be leaders to lead with conscience. They should give the middle class and the poor justice. In any system where there is no fairness and justice, that system will collapse. In Nigeria, there is no justice and fairness.
But are there not enough anti-corruption agencies in the country?
Most of those agencies are not even doing any work. They are not even addressing the issues involved at all. If people like me are taken to court, it means there’s no anti-corruption because I have no reason to be in court. They know those that are supposed to be there. I leave everything to the court since the matter is in a court of competent jurisdiction. I accept it as my fate. Even the day I was born, God knew I would go to court for these things.
You are coordinating an anti-corruption war in Africa. How about the programme?
We are still working out the programmes. We are supposed to be in South Africa this May. We are working out that programme with all stakeholders- part of European Union, the United Nations, some diplomats from the United States and other Western countries. We are working out the details because that is the meeting I will be attending in Brussels. We are working out the process because since government agencies in Africa have failed to fight corruption, we are trying to use non-governmental agencies to fight corruption.
But are there not enough anti-corruption agencies in the country?
Most of those agencies are not even doing any work. They are not even addressing the issues involved at all. If people like me are taken to court, it means there’s no anti-corruption because I have no reason to be in court. They know those that are supposed to be there. I leave everything to the court since the matter is in a court of competent jurisdiction. I accept it as my fate. Even the day I was born, God knew I would go to court for these things.
You are coordinating an anti-corruption war in Africa. How about the programme?
We are still working out the programmes. We are supposed to be in South Africa this May. We are working out that programme with all stakeholders- part of European Union, the United Nations, some diplomats from the United States and other Western countries. We are working out the details because that is the meeting I will be attending in Brussels. We are working out the process because since government agencies in Africa have failed to fight corruption, we are trying to use non-governmental agencies to fight corruption.
You can see people who became ministers, governors and president who never owned anything. They have never been in business. You see retired Army Generals who own Billions of Naira; their salaries couldn’t have been that. So, it is everywhere. When we talk about corruption, people think it is only those in government. If you see what happens in the federal and state governments, you will know that most of the things they say are jokes. It is not good for people you entrusted with public funds to begin to steal it. It is not good and I never supported such.
Most agencies must review themselves and their cases because most of these cases are political. If you are for the government, they will not prosecute you. If you are saying the truth, every other thing will fail but the truth will remain the truth. We fought the third term agenda; we said no to third term and I am sure those are some of the reasons I am where I am today. But it’s not a regrettable thing. I was the only politician, who came to office with two banks and I lost those two banks; I came to office with an airline and I lost that too. I came to office with off-shore companies, building platforms and I lost that.
The anti-corruption agencies in the past were not good. I am sure they are doing reviews now with the relevant agencies that are telling them to follow due process. I will give you an example with myself. I called Mr. Lamorde in 2007 when they said the EFCC was looking for me. I am sure some of you know Ambassador Howard Jeter. I was with him in Washington. I called Lamorde and said I am coming; that instead of landing in Lagos, I will go to Abuja; that I am landing by 5.00am. I am just giving you this story so that you can know the level of injustice. I told him that by 11.00am, I would be in his office. Mr. Ribadu now sent an army of journalists and Cameramen to come into British Airways and arrest me, when I was the one who made the call.
Lamorde is alive. I called with the same MTN phone I use now. So, what I said is traceable. Lamorde is more civil than any other officer I have seen. He wants to go through due process. So, I called him and told him when I will come. So, did you need to dramatise arresting me, when I had called you and told you I was coming?
If you are a good intelligence person, what you would have done was to make sure I landed and followed me through surveillance. You should only follow me and know where I am staying, so that if it passes 12pm or 1pm, and you don’t see me, you can then come and dramatise whatever you wanted to do. I did not say people should not fight corruption but you have to fight it with your conscience.
As 2015 inches closer, what are your fears?
My fears are that Nigerian people might march out on the roads one day and what happened in Romania will happen here, if our leaders are not able to come together and address these issues. My fear is that we are gradually coming to a point where anybody can do anything he likes. That is what we are seeing. Law and Order are being broken down, which is not what things are supposed to be.
We must have a strong Army and a strong Police. For any country that wants to survive, should not joke or play politics with the Armed Forces. It is the pride of any nation. Any nation that does not give its Armed Forces a place of honour is not a serious nation. So, we should just stop using the army for little things. They should be on standby. We should have a quality mobile police force and enforce quality rule of law to ensure the growth of our society.
In 14 years of democracy, what have politicians done to restore hope for the future?
They have done nothing. They are even worse today. That’s the truth.
What kind of president do you expect to see by 2015?
Well, most of you continue to think of civil servants and all these people but the president I am looking for is one that can make a decision; a president that can stand and say I have made this decision, whether it is right or wrong.
Are you back to PDP?
Yes, I am back to the PDP.
So, why are your people opposed to your return?
They are not democrats. If they are democrats, they will not oppose my return.
What can you make of the crisis in PDP and the challenge posed by All Progressives Congress?
No, it is a good thing we are having an alternative party. It is good for the country. That also shows you that Ibrahim Babangida was a visionary leader. I have always said that we need two parties, not three. The PDP, as a party must look for people; people don’t look for parties.
As 2015 inches closer, what are your fears?
My fears are that Nigerian people might march out on the roads one day and what happened in Romania will happen here, if our leaders are not able to come together and address these issues. My fear is that we are gradually coming to a point where anybody can do anything he likes. That is what we are seeing. Law and Order are being broken down, which is not what things are supposed to be.
We must have a strong Army and a strong Police. For any country that wants to survive, should not joke or play politics with the Armed Forces. It is the pride of any nation. Any nation that does not give its Armed Forces a place of honour is not a serious nation. So, we should just stop using the army for little things. They should be on standby. We should have a quality mobile police force and enforce quality rule of law to ensure the growth of our society.
In 14 years of democracy, what have politicians done to restore hope for the future?
They have done nothing. They are even worse today. That’s the truth.
What kind of president do you expect to see by 2015?
Well, most of you continue to think of civil servants and all these people but the president I am looking for is one that can make a decision; a president that can stand and say I have made this decision, whether it is right or wrong.
Are you back to PDP?
Yes, I am back to the PDP.
So, why are your people opposed to your return?
They are not democrats. If they are democrats, they will not oppose my return.
What can you make of the crisis in PDP and the challenge posed by All Progressives Congress?
No, it is a good thing we are having an alternative party. It is good for the country. That also shows you that Ibrahim Babangida was a visionary leader. I have always said that we need two parties, not three. The PDP, as a party must look for people; people don’t look for parties.
But I am sure that with the tour of Alhaji Bamanga Tukur to reconcile all the zones, the PDP will be better. We are not afraid of speaking the truth; we are not afraid to tell those who have done wrong that they have done wrong. But I can assure you that the PDP will come out stronger than it is today.
Do you agree that the Governors have constituted a powerful bloc?
I do not agree that they are very powerful. The constitution has given them very powerful roles to play. The seat of the governors is very, very powerful and that of the President of Nigeria is the most powerful in the world, where the president can wake up and do anything he likes. I have called for a review of the powers since I became a governor in 1999.
What’s your view of the President Jonathan administration?
No, I cannot discuss President Jonathan. He came out and said we should give him up till the end of 2013 to see miracle in power, roads and security and I am in support. It will be wrong for me to start discussing him now. It will not be fair. I believe the President should be given time to perform.
Then, is your involvement in politics a plus or minus for you?
My involvement in politics is a minus but I thank God that I went into politics. It is a minus because I came in with a lot of hope and forward looking but I never knew the kind of pettiness I have seen since 1999 till today from people, I have never seen in the corporate world.
Do you agree that the Governors have constituted a powerful bloc?
I do not agree that they are very powerful. The constitution has given them very powerful roles to play. The seat of the governors is very, very powerful and that of the President of Nigeria is the most powerful in the world, where the president can wake up and do anything he likes. I have called for a review of the powers since I became a governor in 1999.
What’s your view of the President Jonathan administration?
No, I cannot discuss President Jonathan. He came out and said we should give him up till the end of 2013 to see miracle in power, roads and security and I am in support. It will be wrong for me to start discussing him now. It will not be fair. I believe the President should be given time to perform.
Then, is your involvement in politics a plus or minus for you?
My involvement in politics is a minus but I thank God that I went into politics. It is a minus because I came in with a lot of hope and forward looking but I never knew the kind of pettiness I have seen since 1999 till today from people, I have never seen in the corporate world.
So, my going into politics is a big minus in terms of business. But in terms of reaching out, it is a very big plus for me because I have a platform now to say what I want to say. As far as I am concerned, I am not a super statesman.
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