Prof. Alaba Ogunsanwo
Prof Alaba Ogunsanwo, 71, a former Nigerian ambassador to Belgium and a lecturer at the Lead City University, Ibadan, shares his experiences in this interview with GBENRO ADEOYE
How do you manage to still lecture at your age?
I’m 71 but one thing I must say is that those who gave me employment when I finished my university education and obtained my PhD in the London School of Economics are still active. Prof. Adebayo Adedeji at the University of Ife (now Obafemi Awolowo Univerisity), which was operating Ibadan at that point in time in 1971 and 1973 and Prof Ade Ajayi at the University of Lagos, when I moved over to Lagos are still alive and they are active. So, I don’t consider myself of having achieved anything when you have people like that. Prof Ayo Banjo, former Vice-Chancellor, University of Ibadan was my teacher at Government College, Ibadan, when I was doing my Higher School Certificate in 1962 and 1963 and he’s still active.
So where did Nigeria get it wrong with education?
First of all, the regions which were strong at one point in time lost those powers to the centre which became stronger and stronger. And decisions that were being made at the centre were decisions that took into consideration what those at the centre believed were good for the entire country. It was not what those at the regional level considered good for them and therefore decided to make sacrifice to achieve. And gradually, initiative power began to be taken from the periphery as it were, because the regions were simply being considered insignificant. We had a situation where power gravitated to the centre and with the military in control, there was only one direction that you could have- a unity of command. The states therefore began to become shadows of what the regions had been and gradually their powers were whittled down. The derivation principle which Awolowo, Ahmadu Bello, Azikiwe and Balewa had approved, which Opara, Ladoke Akintola, and Osadebey had also been part of and had implemented were gradually put aside. It was 50 per cent, at one point. It became zero under the military before it was allowed to go to about three per cent and to 13 per cent by the time the 1999 constitution was brought in. Federal Government now took upon itself a lot of the things which were being done at the local level. It is true that Tafawa Balewa conceptualised the idea of unity schools that you have now, now with maybe more than 104 unity schools.
The inspectorate division in the Federal Ministry of Education is supposed to be responsible for inspecting schools, but they have been concentrating on those 104 unity schools. You can imagine the extent at which things have gone wrong. The states themselves at that point in time, were competing, that aspect was out. The military went further when in 1975 during the time of Murtala Mohammed and Olusegun Obasanjo, they took over OAU (then UNIFE), Ahmadu Bello University and University of Nsukka. Those were taken over and made federal. That was the commencement of the problem that we now have in our hands, about the Academic Staff Union of Universities and all of that. It was the idiocy of the Federal Government that did that. There was no need for it, that particular year, 1975, the six northern states allocated to ABU, $308m, for the running of the place. By the time all these universities were now taken over by the Federal Government, after about three or four years, what was going to all of them together was about $400m . Can you now imagine how much reduction had gone in terms of resources to these institutions, whereas if they had been left in the hands of the original owners, they would be better because those were the people that founded them. Then other part that has gone wrong with reference to education sector was when the military government decided to take over schools all over the country. We went to primary and secondary schools when there were in existence government schools, missionary schools, independent schools, and other schools. I took entrance exam to Ahmaddiya College, Agege for my HSC as well as to GCI. I took entrance exam to St. Gregory’s College and St. Finbarrs College when I was going in at the Form 1 level. All of these colleges were there at that point in time. If there was anything the Federal Government had to do; it was to build its own schools. It does not make sense to go and take over Ahmaddiya College, or take over St. Gregory’s College. It did not make sense. That was part of the beginning of the destruction of our educational system. If government wanted to be more active in education, the thing it should have done was to build more government colleges. I’ve mentioned Ibadan (GCI) where I went, we had in Umuahia, we had in Ughelli, of course, we had Kings College in Lagos and Barewa College which was at some point in Kaduna. We had several government colleges in the country; what the government needed to do was to have built more educational institutions, rather than take over those ones that were being run by missionaries. This is because they just allowed the standard to go down. Government was not putting enough resources. They were not putting enough resources to those other institutions and some of the moral fibre direction that had been there in the missionary schools were now off. In some cases, they abolished boarding houses; those things didn’t make sense. At a certain point, in terms of our own , they also abolished HSC that we benefited from. The Federal Government created incremental problems like that which were not properly thought out, and all of these things were to lead eventually to the type of rot that we have ourselves in today.
While it is agreed that the government is not in a position to fund entirely all of education, at the same time, it is not willing to allow those who could do it go ahead. The question of autonomy in institutions has been there, that’s one of the problems that we have with ASUU today, autonomy for universities. If you have an autonomy bill and make it into law, why are you interfering? What is the business of the minister of education talking about employment or non-employment or sacking of university teachers? He’s not the employer. Under Nigerian law, the president, commander in chief and also visitor to all federal universities is not the employer. So, he cannot sack lecturers. He cannot do that because he doesn’t have the power under the Nigerian law. There can be a visitation panel to an institution and the law says whatever the visitor directs, all the bodies, structures must carry it out, provided it is not against the rule of law. The Supreme Court upheld that with respect to the treatment of five lecturers at the University of Lagos, who, as a result of the visitation panel, were dealt with and sacked summarily. The Supreme Court said no, that it is not an institution of master-servant. Even if the visitor says to the council, “go and sack these people,” the council cannot just do that summarily. It must follow the procedure established by law. And with reference to the current situation, the minister of education has no locus standi in this matter because he’s not recognised; he’s not an employer. The employer of the lecturers in the University of Ibadan is the council of the university and that council is the one that pays the salaries. It is the one that signs a contract with each lecturer. Each lecturer signs a memorandum of appointment with the university which says, “he will teach, do research and all that.” So, it’s a contract between you and the council. So if the council feels that you have abstained yourself from duty, you have refused to work, it can send you a query to explain why by a certain time, you were not back to work and that you have hereby violated ABC. A committee will be set up and if that is found out to be true and then it goes through senate and then goes to the council, you can then be removed. No court will say you were not given a fair hearing. But you cannot give a collective sack to lecturers; it is not possible. Otherwise, you are saying the law is irrelevant. The law is relevant to this type of situation. It is the government itself that has caused all of the problems. There is nowhere in the constitution that says that the president must go and negotiate with teachers, it is senseless. What is the business of the president?
Who should be talking to the lecturers?
Their council! The council is the employer of lecturers, so it is the council that should be dealing with them. If government has any resources for schools, send to the council. That is the proper thing to be done. Grant them complete autonomy. For example, the council of the UNILAG ought to have autonomy to decide that a Professor of Banking and Finance in UNILAG should earn XYZ irrespective of what a professor of History in Maiduguri is earning. They don’t have to earn the same thing. But right now, it is compulsory that they must earn the same thing simply because there is no autonomy for each university. If you go to South Africa, government funds universities. University of Western Cape and University of Cape Town are in the same city. When they advertise for recruitment, they don’t put salaries as part of condition of service because it is not known. What you are paid in the University of Western Cape is your business. It’s not the business of University of Cape Town because it’s not the same thing and they are in the same city, receiving funds from government. Not to talk of other universities within the system. I don’t see the reason why some people will sit down in Abuja and say that this professor must not earn more than that, that is not your business. Let the council handle it. Something that affects Maiduguri is now generalised that everyone else will now go on strike because of that, which the council in Maiduguri can resolve. Ideally, there should be complete autonomy for each university handled by the council of the university which is the employer of each lecturer. The employer is not the National Universities Commission, it’s not the minister of education. The employer is not the president of the country either. The employer in law is the council. How the council is made up is also established by law. So, if we can follow the rules of law, all of these crises that we are having will not be there. There is no reason why it should be the business of the president how much a lecturer should earn. It is not his business at all; it is the university itself that should be able to do that.
Having worked as a lecturer in UNILAG, which is a federal university and later in a private university, where you are now, what would you say is the difference between public and private university education in the country?
I left UNILAG in 2007. You know those who send their kids to tertiary institutions in Ghana and other African countries, what they say is that when your child gets admitted into the university October Year X, you will also know the date of graduation, just as it is in Britain and other advanced countries. But it’s not like that in Nigeria. You get to the University of Ibadan, or Lagos as long as it is government school, anything can happen. Non academic staff could be the ones that will have issue with the government, water and everything will not be supplied, electricity will be cut off. It could be SSANU, it could be ASUU. So you have a situation in which the academic year is unpredictable, therefore, some kids spend six years for a programme that should have been four years. Not because they are idiots or fools, but because they cannot control the system and it could also be the students themselves that would be the cause of the instability. So the main reason people send their children to those places is because they want stability. Secondly, they question the quality of our products. Because if a student is forced to stay at home for four months with no lecture and he now comes back and within a week or two, you now give him an exam, they will say ‘what the hell!. What are you testing? That this person now comes out and you now tell the world that he’s a graduate? So they have a doubt about that and they can see what the graduates are doing in the market place. And part of the problem is also from the secondary schools, where garbage is coming into the system. Where garbage is not properly treated, it will go out as worse garbage into the system.The private institutions want to ensure predictability, there is constancy in terms of engagement with students. You will agree that it is the same group of students available to the public institutions that are also available to the private ones. The only difference is that in the private institutions, they know that these people must be brought up, and since there is stability, it is easier to handle that and ensure that ‘garbage in’, is not necessarily ‘garbage out. Several of our colleagues in public universities also send their children to private universities now because they also know that stability is important. Now we don’t even know when this industrial action would be called off.
What stirred your interest in International Relations when some of your colleagues would be thinking of studying medicine or engineering back then?
My father thought perhaps I could do pharmacy and I said, I wasn’t inclined in that direction. I said I wanted to do administration. He said well, he himself had been an administrator and also a teacher but he was in the Colonial Audit department. I was at GCI, had my HSC there and I applied to two institutions- University of Ibadan and Ahmadu Bello University. ABU for administration and I wanted to study English in UI. I was admitted at ABU after taking an entrance exam. For UI, no entrance exam, but they gave me a combined programme that included French. And I had not done French before. So I was in ABU to do Administration specialising in International relations. We got appointments before we graduated. I worked with the Federal Government for three months and then went to the London School of Economics where I had also got admission. I went there, studied International Relations for my masters and also for my PhD, I came back and joined University of Ife, Ibadan branch. From there, I moved to Lagos in 1973. I joined the School of Administration, UNILAG and they were also doing restructuring and Public Administration was moved to Political Science. In 1975, I moved over to Political Science where I worked until 2007.
How was your experience as a diplomat?
It was a challenge at the time that I was appointed in 1991. The South African events were moving and one senior diplomat who was supposed to go to Botswana had some family problems and couldn’t go, then I was approached and asked to go. The main mission was to monitor what was going on inside South Africa to prepare the ground such that Nigeria would be in a vantage position with all of the events that were taking place. I had been part of National Committee Against Apartheid, a process of international struggle against the apartheid system in South Africa.
I had been part of Nigeria’s foreign policy machinery in terms of a group to make suggestions. I was a member of the Adedeji committee which was appointed in 1975 by Murtala Mohammed and in 1976 submitted their report to Olusegun Obasanjo who had succeeded Murtala after the coup. I was also a consultant to the cabinet office in Lagos. I had been involved in a number of things that were going on relating to foreign relations. In 1984, I was at the United Nations Union Assembly as a member of the Nigerian delegation and that interaction with the foreign relations was something I believed came to be of benefit when I was appointed head of Mission. And because I had also been teaching International Relations, it was time to marry theory and practice. So it was a challenge and I took it on.
People say Nigerians are often disrespected outside these days, what was the situation like when you were a diplomat?
The bad image that was being created for us as at 1992 by ‘419’, that bad image was already there and something we had to fight. The 419 thing was spoiling Nigeria’s name all over and this is an environment where people were looking for opportunities to bring you down. The fight against apartheid was one that Nigerians of all ages had united strongly against and participated in and succeeded in. So at that point, it was clear that some people did not like that and wanted something to use to denigrate the country. Each time they saw Nigeria, they say ‘419’, at a certain time, they were giving the impression that crime was increasing in South Africa because of Nigerians. But if you went to their prisons, more than 99 per cent of South Africans were in prison there. There have been complaints that our efforts at the international level have not been appreciated and reciprocated. But our leaders at the beginning, Balewa and co, embarked on these efforts on the basis of altruism. What is right and needs to be done should be done and not what was in it for us.
I’m sure you could have stayed abroad to lecture in any school of your choice like some Nigerian scholars, why are you doing your lecturing here?
When I finished my doctorate degree, the only thing I wanted to do was to come back to Nigeria and begin my career as an academician and that was what I did. I told you I was at Ife and then moved to Lagos and spent six years in Lagos, then went on sabbatical leave. I was teaching at the Princeton University as visiting Associate Professor from 1979 to 1980 and returned to UNILAG at the end of the period. Six years later, I went out again as full fledged professor to lecture in New Jersey. I was thinking I would go back again after six years but then I was appointed as High Commissioner of Nigeria to Botswana and Lesotho. And while that was on, I was appointed ambassador to Belgium, Luxembourg and the European Union. When I returned, I had been out for eight years, but my intention was always to come back. No matter how advanced some countries are, I can’t live there. Nigeria is home to me and this is where I stay. It ‘s okay to go to the United States and come back, I don’t want to live there, what for? I can’t operate there. For example, I can’t stand the crimes of bitterness and racist proclamations still coming out of the media in the US. I cannot live in that kind of environment, even if it’s the most advanced country in the world. I’ve given lectures in about 40 countries all over the world, but if I go out, it will be for a short time. I cannot be part of brain drain.
Is there any time during your childhood that you often remember with nostalgia?
I started schooling at the age of four when you had a slate and they put sand and you used your hand to draw something. Now I’m 71, you can see the number of years I’ve spent in secondary school. I recall with nostalgia my stint at the GCI with colleagues such as Chief Ajibola Ogunsola because I value his friendship very much. I was his best man at his wedding in London and he was my best man at my wedding in Ibadan. It was a competitive environment.
I was with Dr. Omololu Olunloyo recently and he spoke passionately about GCI too. I finished from Loyola College in Ibadan here and then we had this rivalry with GCI, what is it about GCI that you all talk about passionately?
I also took entrance exam to Loyola for HSC but once I was admitted at GCI, of course, I went there. We who came from outside tried to show them that while they had been there from form 1, they didn’t have advantage over us. It was competitive. In our literature class, we were supposed to study three of Shakespeare plays, I read 32, all of Shakespeare plays in the library. Those were times that kept you on and you felt that you could achieve and the GCI blood stayed with me. For instance, when I was at ABU, each time examination came, I would wear the uniform of GCI to the exam in the university. It was not because of that that I came tops, but part of the discipline that one had brought to bear; to remind me of GCI that you must perform well there.
Did you have time for social activities?
I was a member of the Alpha Fraternity but it was just a social club in the university and I liked the brooch. Then I would go to films, but even I had to curtail that. You know, I went from Ibadan to Zaria (ABU). The first tutorial that we did, a small group of five to come and make presentation, the guy gave me a D, he said ‘out of point’. I said ‘no more’, I came all the way from Ibadan and then you say out of point. Everything else must be in the background, only my studies. From then on, once our lectures were over by 1.30pm, I would go for lunch, then sleep and by 4pm, I was in the class or library studying. I may rush to go and eat and then back there until 11pm. That was what I did from the first day of term to the last day of the term. People knew where to find me after lecture hours. I always told myself that I would not come all over from the west and not do well.
What’s your typical day like?
Normally, I would close here about 4.30pm. I do my walk around;, I’m supposed to do that to exercise the cardiovascular vessels. Later on in the day, I watch the TV and do some things I have to do academically. Then, I pray and go to bed. It’s a very simple life indeed and I stay on campus so to that extent, it’s really simple.
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